Sarayu (the Holy Spirit) shows Mack a messy, fractal garden. The garden is full of colors, herbs, flowers, plants. Mack describes it as a “chaos in color”…”confusing, stunning, and incredibly beautiful.” As they walk, Sarayu picks various herbs and plants and flowers, giving them to Mack and creating a bouquet.
She then gives Mack some garden tools and leads him to a secluded patch of absolute beauty—breathtaking. She asks for his help in clearing the patch because she wants to plant something else here instead. Stunned at her request to destroy something so beautiful, he joins her in clear-cutting the beautiful patch of garden. Their conversation turns to the topic of Good and Evil where Sarayu makes the comment, “You humans, so little in your own eyes. You are truly blind to your own place in the Creation. Having chosen the ravaged path of independenc, you don’t even comprehend that you are dragging the entire Creation along with you.” She also states that “humans have a great capacity for declaring something good or evil, without truly knowing.” She begins to question Mack about his ability to really know what is good for him or what is evil. He says a lot of it is based on how something or someone effects him…that somethings he thought were good turned out to be bad, and visa-versa. They continue to work and dialogue together.
Sarayu tells Mack that Evil is simply the absence of God, much like Darkness is simply the absence of Light, and Death, the absence of Life. That Evil and Darkness can only be understood in relation to Light and Good..that they do not actually have any existence. Light and Good actually exist. So by Mack removing himself from God plunges him into darkness. That is death because he has separated himself from God: Life.
The conversation turns towards Mack daughter, Missy, and he asks if she had the right to be protected. Sarayu says, “No Mack. A child is protected because she is loved, not because she has a right to be protected.” This floors Mack. She continues, “Rights are where survivors go, so they don’t have to work out relationships…” that “Jesus didn’t hold on to any rights; he willingly became a servant and lives out of his relationship with Papa. He gave up everything, so that by his dependent life he opened a door that would allow you to live free enough to give up your rights.”
Papa then arrives. Mack says how, though the garden is a mess, he somehow feels strangely comfortable in it. Papa and Sarayu smile at each other. Sarayu says, “And well you should, Mackenzie, because this garden is your soul—this mess is you! Together, you and I, we have been working with a purpose in your heart. And its wild and beautiful and perfectly in process. To you it seems messy, but to me, I see a perfect pattern emerging and growing and alive—a living fractal.” Mack crumbled. He looked at his garden and it really was a mess, but incredible and wonderful at the same time.
The chapter ends with Mack walking up to the workshop to look for Jesus so they can go for a walk…
This was one of my favorite chapters in the book. Then ending, with Mack realizing this beautiful-messy garden was him, really hit home. I ate up the artistic visualization of the garden representing our souls.
The one line I underlined was, “humans have a great capacity for declaring something good or evil, without truly knowing.” Ugh, so freakin’ true! This to me was the lie we bought and continue to buy, that our judgments of good and evil are correct.
(My favorite chapter is the one with the judge, btw… interesting our differences…)
For me this chapter was a bit messy and the details through me off. BUT I do love the picture painted to explain how our tangled and weedy lives don’t have to stay that way – with a bit of grunt work they can be redeemed for His glory.
This was one of my favorites, actually the judge one was the other. It was interesting how Sarayu thought the (Mack’s) mess was beautiful as well, in its own way.
BTW…Welcome back!
Thanks, not quite sure I’m all the way here yet, but I’m working on it… it’s strange to be back.
I hope that the Holy Spirit sees our damaged mess and considers it beautiful because He can see the potential that it holds. The potential that we have in Christ when we are obedient to get our hands dirty and do some weeding is just endless… we can move mountains, after all!
Do you think God looks at our potential?
is that a stumper?
I think that God knows what we can/will create with our lives. I think/hope that it’s exciting for Him to watch as we develop into something that resembles more of Him… something less messy and more un-human-like.
So, yeah, I think He does recognize our potential. I think that, kinda like Jonah, He keeps giving opportunity for the potential to take hold and look more like a life in motion. Some choose motion, some sit under a shadeless vine and die. Know what I’m saying?
sorry guys… I’m still here… just not sure where this fits in with all the first priority priorities I have….
I guess, I think of “potential” as “this is what they may, or may not become” and I think of God as being more sovereign than that. He won’t ever be surprised by how much I do or do not do in this life – but I imagine I will have a huge surprise on judgement day, as I see for myself how much wasted potential there was.
I am always too tired, too busy, too incapable of memorization. Too poor to help out the guy down the streeet. To unlearned to be scholarly. Too female to be theological. And, I expect I will see my excuses for what they were, in the next life.
I look at Brother Yun. Prison time was a good time to be cramped up in a jail cell too small to stand up or stretch out in and memorizing entire BOOKS of the Bible. Midnight is a good time to plant one’s fields, if there was an early morning church gathering that cut into one’s daily activities.
My hierachy of needs is something like: me, sleep (it is a third of my life), parenting, cleaning, Brad, friends (maybe friends before Brad these days, if I am totally honest), God…. so, do I have more potential? Certainly? Does God see me that way? I don’t think so, but I don’t know…
Relationship with God? Definately. Can’t argue with that…but what god?
Please look up: powersthatbe (find out who “Papa” really is) and also: she of a thousand names. The similarities are too frightening to ignore. For anyone who shrugs it off, beware of the strong delusion that the Bible speaks about in 2 Thessalonians 2:11, Matt. 24:24
There is a movement quickly rising, one of goddess worship, one that started at the Tower of Babel, with Nimrod and Semiramis and has moved throughout history and people groups, a counterfeit trinity with ever changing aliases, including Sophia, Papa, Sarayu (also Saranyu). This is the same pagan goddess as Diana, Isis, Aphrodite, the Virgin Mary (of Catholicism), Ishtar, Mother Earth, etc… This movement represents a transgendered god/goddess that is all about Oneness, Love, Peace…Though, not the same Oneness, Love and Peace that can only be had through a relationship with the Jesus of the Bible. No, this has to do with god of the New World Order- a god who compassionately embraces all religions, beliefs and creeds- cuz after all, isn’t it all about DIVERSITY, LOVE, TOLERANCE, ACCEPTANCE and PEACE? Those who disagree must be hatemongers! Granted this book does not dismiss Jesus as being God, but I do see it as a “gateway” book, one that subtly introduces alternative views of God, to open and condition the readers’ minds for later, more emboldened ideas of the nature and character of God. Oprah is a big proponant of this new religion, I wouldn’t be surprised if she picks this book as part of her book club one day. Keep an eye on the ecumenical movement, the Catholic church calling back all her protestant “daughters”, there is also a video that can be viewed online called “Messages from Heaven”. Arm yourself with knowledge so you can see what is coming. Also related: Kali and Transgender goddess cybele
Keeps your eyes open people- especially those of you who claim to be christians! Where there is the real thing, there is always a counterfeit, designed to try and deceive the very elect.
Please read my comments under “The Genderless God” section. Papa is not being portrayed as a transgender goddess in this book. The comments explain.
Also, there has been a reference to the “callies” website as a great reveiw that blasts this book. Because he is very theological, and if you don’t know your whole Bible, you could be captivated by his arguments. Ironically, I was able to find one or more scriptures to refute every sngle one of his points. Some of his stuff is very off.
This book seems to be offending a lot of pharisees who are yelling, “Crucify him!” in a religious frenzy, while all the while having missed the whole point of the book. Because Jesus came to have relationship with us, this book is merely trying to get the point across in a metaphorical, fictional setting, that our God is loving and approachable. The pharisees hated that and it does make one wonder why it is bothering so many today.
This book is not New Age (which preaches that there is no personal god and that there are many ways to that state of consciousness called “god”). I find that many people have misunderstood the context, misunderstood the read-between-the-lines point being made, leave out an important complimentary aspect in another part of the book (hence my comment in another area about Mack’s abusive father and why God chose only initially to reveal Himself as a friendly Black Mammy – He later did reveal Himself as a man – people seem to forget that), or have actually misread certain words, and then jump to erroneous conclusions.
True spiritual discernment can only be operated in when one knows the Lord intimately – “My sheep hear My voice.” This book is about God giving us permission to get close because He longs for us to hear His voice and know Him. We are made in His image (the Bible actually says “Our” image) and there is no way that we can be playful, have a sense of humor, etc. without having gotten it from Him. It is not a sin to see God the way He really is – truly Holy and Majestic and truly personal and joyful. Don’t forget, the greek word for “Abba” is Daddy. Whoa, I guess God made a mistake sticking that word in the Bible! He must have really meant for them to pick the word for “stoic!.” (Tongue in cheek for those who don’t get it).
Satan knows that “religious” people can’t stop his kingdom and can’t advance God’s kingdom. This is what God refers to when He says, “They practice a form of godliness but deny its power.” One can memorize the Bible inside and out and still not know God. There is no power to bring about change in a dying world if we do not know Him intimately. We need the Living Word in our lives in order for the written Word to come to life. You must have both! That’s what this book is all about. Relationship, not dead religion. “The letter of the Law kills, but the Spirit gives life.”
You must understand that this message makes Satan mad. That is why there is such an uproar.
For those who are chosing not to read this book based on other’s opinions, I would encourage you to think for yourselves. The Holy Spirit gives witness to truth and you are to bring all things before God, not make your decisions based on man’s opinions only. That’s how cults get started!
Also, remember, when things start getting really complicated, it is probably not God. Jesus said that “even a child can understand this.” Please take the book for what it is: one man’s original bedtime story to his six children that he never intended to publish. Obiviously some nuggets got downloaded to Him by the Holy Spirit and he put them on paper. It is not extra biblical – it is merely a fictional account of one man’s journey to understanding that God loves him and desires to heal him.
The story has touched the hearts of many who have had the same impression as Mack of a bully god who was always mad at them, and whom they could never please. The concept, I repeat, concept, of the book (it’s not a theological treatstise) is to change people’s perspectives for the good. If Satan did inspire this book, then it has backfired, because the only response I have heard from dozens and dozens of friends is that it has given them a stronger desire to read their Bibles, pray, and get to know the Lord. Wow, that is terrible fruit, isn’t it? If it truly were new age, it would be drawing people into false writings and toward other religions. People are buying it and passing it on because it is drawing them soley toward Christianity in its fullest sense.
Thanks for your time – sorry this was so long.
But every work, even fiction, is a reflection of one’s beliefs, is it not?
There is SO much doctrine in this book, intended or unintended. The god that Young portrays seems to be doing some sort of damage control. I think Romans 9 especially presents a God much more active in everything in life. Neil Christopher made a similar comment on my blog – that if God is like the one presented in this book, it’s small comfort at the time of great loss….
I think if God is as William says, then we sort of are left to the wolves, and God just comforts us in the mess, and provides some sort of happy ending in the long run. But, I think of Job, who did not sin when he said “the Lord gives, and the Lord takes away, blessed be the name of the Lord.” And I think it was David who said “shall we except good from the Lord, and not evil?” God does not sin, or do evil, but He is more sovereign than the Shack indicates…
Shelley,
I theologically agree with you about a lot of things. Relationship with Christ is the key to not being a “Pharisee.” Not only is that the key to not being a “bad guy,” but it’s the key to true living – to the true point of our existence.
However… it’s difficult for me to deny that the book does leave one wanting and questioning what Young is actually getting at. It seems to me that the book portrays one side of the prism that is God. Yes, it is one side that legalists leave behind. But it is still just one side, all the same.
I agree that the book portrays one side of the prism that is God. It is even stated in the book that “this weekend is about love and relationship.” The book is an explanation of that weekend. The Peretti books were not about love and relationship – they were about intercession and spiritual warfare. C.S. Lewis’s “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe” was not about spiritual warfare, but about the consequences of sin and subsequent salvation. Did the masses jump on them because they left out other aspects of God? No, as fiction writers, they wanted to bring out certain aspects of God’s nature and character based on what the point of their stories were.
I think we need to realize that Young did not embark on writing a novel with the intention of presenting every aspect of the Lord found in His Word. He wrote a novel wanting to zero in on one aspect, healing and friendship with God. He did not write a Christian teaching and training manual. He wrote a book that started out as a bedtime story for his kids.
Can’t we cut this guy some slack? I have read the book through for the second time and it is beautiful! Makes me shout out loud and tell the Lord how much I love Him and how awesome He is! It’s not my Bible substitute – it’s entertainment with a heart.
Just to get you thinking….funny how Lord of the Rings claims to be a “Christian” allegory and no one was up in arms over that one. It was full of stuff that God blatantly forbids in His Word. We are not to be entertained by witchcraft and sorcery. God calls sorcery an abomination. But Christians embraced that one without blinking an eye. Seems to me that compared to that spectacular display of one form of black magic, demons, and witchcraft after another, Young’s literary embellishments seem pretty kindergarten level on the controversy scale. What hypocrites we are. Again, as reiterated above, it is because intimacy with God is the highest warfare and Satan is attacking this one full throttle. Why should he stop Christians from watching Lord of the Rings when he can dupe us all into thinking that a sorcerer is a hero? Mixture in the church means a weak church. So bring it on! We’ll pick and chose what we want to be valid based on the emotional response it invokes in us. And if it invokes a really big emotional response, we’ll make all kinds of excuses why we need it. Kind of like Eve looking at the apple….
Not trying to take this off on a rabbit trail – it’s just that people have to ask why this book is getting so much flack when blatantly anti-biblical movies were lauded as a prophetic picture of the Christian walk and of the church and most people didn’t say a word.
Hmmm….maybe this controversy is a smokescreen to divert our attention away from the real false prophesy that is taking place around the world right now through Oprah’s “Course in Miracles.” Here we are fighting over a beautifully written, inspiring allegory that is drawing many to the heart of the Father, while she is proselytizing the whole word into the New Age movement. How clever of Satan to know that we love to wrangle about words while missing the point.
Shelley -
LoTRs is not an allegory. Neither was the Narnia series. If people choose to view them as such, it is not because the author’s encouraged them to.
The problem I have with the Shack is not that Young is trying to use a lion to somehow represent Jesus. He is trying to, in a story, give God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit flesh and human form – and two of three of those is not biblical. It’s creating a graven image of God. It is not okay to recreate our glorious heavenly Father as an earthly mother.
I agree that the problems with Oprah could be addressed as well. I did touch on them on my own blog a week or so ago. But I would not call a book that is 12th on Amazon’s selling list as a non-essential issue.
I will not be left with a god who took risks to come to earth. Nor a Jesus who preaches something other than Christianity. I do not worship the great god of fixing things he had no control over. The god of the shack, as my friend Neil commented on my own page – who lost his own 19 year old daughter a year and a half ago – the god of the shack provides small comfort indeed. I don’t want a god who “carefully respects my choices” nor a god who is my servant. The book is a pathetic summary of the God of Romans 9, and the God of Job. Satan is lulling us into the worship of a heavenly bell-hop and glorified teddy-bear in the sky. A god that is less than sovereign, less than omnipotent.
Shelley,
I’ll follow you down the rabbit trail.
The only person that I can speak for is myself (and possibly my husband). I remember my mom reading me the Lord of the Rings series to sleep as a child. Not because it was an allegory, but because it is a spectacular series (although the movies are far too gory for my taste). I also enjoy Mary Poppins and let my daughters watch it. Is Mary Poppins using witch craft? Or how about Willow or the Princess Bride or the Little Mermaid or Brother Bear or Sleeping Beauty, ect? My children getting into wicka because of some fairy tales really is the least of my worries. I, personally, think that the whole idea that one will lead to another is ridiculous. However, if parents choose to shield their children from these types of movies, it aint no thang. I suppose that it’s better than letting them watch pornos. Right?
It’s funny that you bring up the Perreti books because I LOVE his ‘darkness’ series (but what was up with Monster??). But I’m not sure that one can compare them, nor the LWW series, to The Shack. Yes, all are fiction. But LWW is an allegory (in my opinion), the ‘darkness’ series is… Christian fiction with spiritual characters, and the Shack is… ??? The Shack is … fiction with three of the four main characters being our God. You must admit that it’s a slippery path – giving our triune God words and then publishing them.
I thought I was the only one who questioned the theology of The Shack. As soon as I read the word used for the Holy Spirit my guard was up. The more I read the more I began relating his view of theology as coming close to what one hears on programs such as Oprah. An author who wanted to honor God as He truly is would never have explained Him in such a way that suggests Buddhism, New Age, etc on every page.
I’m curious, Linda, how do you think that this book suggests “Buddhism, New Age, etc on every page?”
(not that I necessarily disagree, I’m just curious what gave you that impression)
Wow, I am so utterly amazed that there could be such a big debate of what is being read in this book… In the book Ogd did not say he was a African American woman and he did not say that the Holy Spirit was a Asian Women .. He said he represented himself in that way do to MAck’s upbringing… He gave him a dream! A dream to bring him down out of a religious state that he was in so that he would understand how truly he loves us so much that he would meet him in a way that he would accept and understand! And then to make the statement I am neither male nor female! I am a spirit! Whats so hard to think that God loves us enough to meet us where we are! Not everone thinks the same! Where is the scripture that says that either peter or paul… excuse me for not knowing the correct sripture that states that sometimes we have to become all things to man…. Its not judging and meeting them where they are at! Not meaning to do things that we know would be against what we believe but to be a witness to those by not judging and befriending them with love in there situation. I think the author of this book explained something that people just can’t truly see and that is that God loves us enough to meet us where we are at! Hence forth comes the place in the book where he named all different kinds of religions and then states clearly THEY WERE! they all became to the loving saving grace of what we all know is that Jesus died for our sins! THEY WERE is what is being overlooked! It is amazing.. I truly wonder how shocked we will all be on the day we see God and the Trinity face to Face! I don’t know who came up with this bog but I am truly grateful for the knowledge it is given… And I do agree that we need to be careful! In the last days even the elect will be decieved! But I know this book has only birthed in my a more deeper hunger to know God in a more real relationship and turly get out of the religous box that people out him in!. Thanks to all who are and have shared in this website!
I guess the issue really comes down to free will. That is what Young refers to when he says God violated no person’s will. He never “forced” someone to follow Him.
God loves us because we are His creation, not just for our potential, though our potential is ultimately to be in a close, loving relationship with Him. Our potential is to be like Christ as we grow and mature in Him.
The future is set if you know it, and none of us do. Even those who think we are the elect, may not be, for we may fall away before we die (Hebrews 6). The point is God’s offer is nigh, will we accept it? This book is about God calling Mack deal with his loss because that loss had stopped Mack from hearing and seeing God. God is love, and that is the message in this book. Why do bad things happen? Because of sin, and the results of sin. God can and occasionally does miraculously intersect the path of sin (whether it be healing from a sickness or the deliverence from death of a wild animal or car accident), but often He doesn’t, and that is His choice, for He is sovereign. We pray because He hears us, and will “change” His mind because of our petitions. He struck that deal with Lot, remember. He is involved in our lives, not just sitting back in control. Our faith is dynamic. And he created all men/women, and gives them the choice of accepting or rejecting His love.